2. Write a summary for your Biblical images.
3. Write a comment on this post in which you answer one of the following (about lines 562-769 of Oedipus the King):
A. At ll. 670 and following, Oedipus asks, "How long is it since Laius . . . [pauses]." Then he goes on to ask, if Tiresias is a good prophet, and thinks I did the murder, why didn't Tiresias speak up then? (Creon answers, in effect, "I don't know.") What does this question say about Oedipus's state of mind during this speech?
B. Creon makes an argument in lines 701-724 that goes something like this: why should I want to get rid of you, Oedipus? I have all the privileges of royalty right now (being your brother-in-law) without any of the burdens of kingship." What do you think of this argument, especially at this place and time (in the play)? He then says something like, "Go and ask the oracle if I'm guilty." Which argument seems to you better? Why?
C. In lines 748-750, Oedipus says, "If some conspirator moves against me, in secret and with speed, I must be quick to make my counter-plans." What does this speech say about his mental state at this point?
D. At 764-765, Oedipus says, "Oh Thebes, my city!" Why might he say this at this point?
E. The Greeks believed that "character is fate"--we don't get to choose our character, and our character causes certain things to happen to us. How might this apply to Oedipus?
C. Obviously from this statement Oedipus is showing some reservation and amger towards something. The scene is a conversation between Creon, but just from looking at these lines, it seems almost at an unnoticable breaking point. He is stressed, being yelled at, trying to control, and having to defend his honor, which would make someone uneasy and always trying to improve themselves. He is saying 'if someone tries to get me, I HAVE to be faster.' He wants to prove himself right. I think that quality is admirable to some degree but in his situation, it is a little frightening to think he is in over his head.
ReplyDelete-Maddie A
D) I think that Oedipus is saying that at this point because Creon is bassically saying that Oedipus is not good enough to rule Thebes. That he is an unfit ruler and he is insane b/c he wants to kill Creon and Creon think that that is not in the best interests of him or Oedipus, and that it is stupid then Oedipus says he is still has to govern even if he is wrong, Creon then goes on and questions him again by saying "Not if you do it badly" This causes Oedipus to say, Oh Thebes my city, I think in vain. He thinks hes so great for his city and being thought not a ruler pains him. and so he cries out for his city, almost like "what would they do without me!"
ReplyDelete-Audrey Emerson
At 670, Oedipus shows severe signs of nervousness and preoccupation in his state of mind during his speech. The way in which he suddenly brings up liaus when at no other piont in the conversation had he been mentioned, shows that oedipus was preoccupied, thinking about liaus's murder so much that it slips out of his mouth, although he does pull back once he realizes what he is saying. However, once oedipus slips up by mentioning liaus, you get a sence of nervousness in his responce as to why he brought up the murdered king. the way in which the author uses "..." before his answer shows that he is still thinking as he speaks his answer, another sign of nervousness or preoccupation. Then when he changes the subject to Teiresias's accuracy in prophisizing, due to the abrubtness of the change in topic, you get the sence that he does not want to discuss the subject of Liaus, thus giving him a hint of suspiciousness, bringing us back to his nervousness, because someone doing something suspicious will be nervous.
ReplyDeleteC.) If Oedipus is already assuming that there is some conspiracy against him, it means he has reached some level of paranoia or madness. Also, he says that he "must be quick to counteract his plans". This means that Oedipus believes he must act quickly or someone will attempt to dethrone him or kill him. The events of recent (the plague, Teiresias accusing Oedipus of murder, etc.) probably just made Oedipus so frantic and paranoic that he began to go slightly mad.
ReplyDeleteWhen Creon talks about him not wanting to be king because he has all the privileges of being a king without the burden of the city, I got an image of him of being sly and some what deceitful. He is almost making it seem like Oedipus seem that one at fault for even accusing him. However, this was a good method because it really made Oedipus question his initial reactions. When Creon goes into telling him that he may as well go ahead and tell the oracle if I'm guilty, I thought that this was a somewhat childish argument and ultimately made him seem ill-tempered and mocking. I thought that Creon made a good argument, which was very important because if he had made bad argument, Oedipus would have had no problem ignoring him and exiling him out of the country,
ReplyDeleteQuestion E states The Greeks believed that "character is fate"--we don't get to choose our character, and our character causes certain things to happen to us. How might this apply to Oedipus? While in class today, the group I was in, which was Julian Taylor and myself all discussed this topic somewhat and I thought I would share it with all of you. Oedipus is a big ruler and many people look up to him. This means that his life will have many good moments and also some bad, like everyone's. But because Oedipus has so much power and is looked up to by so many people, if something goes wrong everyone will turn on him. This is somewhat what fate is if you are a leader of a large group. For instance, President Bush may have done some things that others didn't agree with, or it was not for the good of the country, so I guess his fate was already decided because he is the president, if one thing goes wrong then the fault is usually on said person.
ReplyDeleteE. Oedipus is the leader of his people, and everything is on his shoulders. Oedipus has much domination and cannot let anything slip or else it won't be good for him or his people. How the passage speaks of his fate it basically is talking about how he is the commander and it is needed for him to be there and not forget about his priorities.
ReplyDeleteI am going to answer the question: At 764-765, Oedipus says, "Oh Thebes, my city!" Why might he say this at this point? I think that he might say that at this point because In the reading you can tell that Creon is saying that Oedipus is not fit to run Thebes, because in the sentence directly above that he says: I can see that you’ve become unbalanced. And Oedipus tells him that he is sane enough to defend my interest, and Creon says: You should be protecting mine as well. This part of the reading shows you that Creon is trying to tell Oedipus that he is not a good leader, and that he should take some helpful hints from Creon. But then later Oedipus goes on to say that he is a treacherous man, and that shows that Oedipus is saying: No i will not listen to you, because you are a deceiving, lying person, who no one can trust. So I think that is what leads Oedipus to say Oh Thebes my city. He is trying to show Creon that he does love and treasure and will take care of Thebes and that he doesn't need any of his help.
ReplyDeleteC. In the passage of part c. it shows Oedipus planning how to stop his enemies. The way it is phrased shows us that Oedipus is not in a totally sane state of mind.It speaks to the anxiety he feels. Oedipus says that he needs to act swiftly. Clearly Oedipus believes that someone is conspiring against him. The anxiety is building in Oedipus and he is beginning to act irrational.
ReplyDeleteE. It is traditional to believe that our fate is decided on our personality, which is set in us as soon as we are born. Oedipus is an intelligent man (who is clearly good at solving riddles). His intelligence lead him to become the King of Thebes, which is only one contribution to his fate. Becoming a king or taking on such a big role requires a great deal of responsibilty, which ultimately could make one stubborn or selfish. This could be the case with Oedipus because for example, he is outraged when Teiresius doesn't reveal certain information. But he also is not aware of the truth about himself, being that he eventually kills his own father (not knowing its his father)
ReplyDeleteA.
ReplyDeleteIn lines 701-724, I think that Creon has a strong argument that Oedipus can not argue with because Creon has everything that he could ever want without the responsibilty of being king. He is extremely content without being king but having the same privliges, so he has no motivation to kill Oedipus. I believe that this response was completely appropriate for the time and place in th play becuase with the statement, "That's what makes your friendship so decietful.", Oedipus is basically asking Creon for reasons why he should not accuse him of being decietful and Creon greatfully explains to him why he is so content with being the third party to Oedipus and his wife. I also believe that his other arguement makes sense; that Oedipus has no evidence for Creon wanting to kill him; but his first arguement is much stronger. This is because in Creon's first arguement, he has a reason for why he would not want the throne, but in his second arguement, he is simply denying the fact that he has evidence.
-Erin Moody
C. From the words being spoken by Oedipus in this exceprt from the script, it seems that Oedipus is in a frightened and anxious state, causing him to become paranoid, almost somewhat insane. Oedipus's thought of someone trying to kill him is somewhat sporadic, as he starts to act wildly and talk about how "I must be quick to make my counter plans. If i just rest and wait for him to act, then he'll succeed in what he wants to do, and I'll be finished". Also, I have read.
ReplyDeleteOedipus says this at this point because he is challenging Creon. In this scene Creon is basically saying that Thebes is just as much his as it is Oedipus's and Oedipus is challenging or daring Creon to try and take it from him. He is also getting kind of desperate because the city is falling apart.
ReplyDelete-JJ
A. At ll. 670 and following, Oedipus asks, "How long is it since Laius . . . [pauses]." Then he goes on to ask, if Tiresias is a good prophet, and thinks I did the murder, why didn't Tiresias speak up then? (Creon answers, in effect, "I don't know.") What does this question say about Oedipus's state of mind during this speech?
ReplyDeleteI find that the author was trying to express something significant when Oedipus asks about Laius. It is very unusual because just before, they were talking about Teiresias the prophet, then suddenly, as if a thought protruded his mind, Oedipus asks about the death of Laius. In addition, his question regarding Laius is hesistant, noted by the three dots (...), as if he's not sure if it is correct. Then, his next question also seems a little unstable, because he asks why Tiresias did not speak his claim before, instead of declaring that he had never laid a hand in Laius' murder, if it was the case that he did not kill Laius. All these evidences point to me suspecting that Oedipus' mind is disarrayed and some memory or thought of Laius caused him to start to loose confidence in himself.
When Oedipus cries out, “Oh Thebus my city!” it is because Creon is pressuring him to give up his throne. This might seem like a random place to have this comment in the play, but with the heat of the topic the conversation was heading this was the perfect line have. The setting is that Creon is arguing with Oedipus that he doesn’t want the crown, and Oedipus doesn’t believe him and wants him to be killed. “No. I want you to die, not just run off so I can demonstrate what envy means.” Oedipus saying “Oh Thebus my city!” at this point in the conversation, is reminding Creon what the hierarchy is in the conversation, and life in general.
ReplyDeleteThis is for the homework tonight, Thursday Oct. 9th:
ReplyDeleteJust to mention this, in the beginning, I thought it was interesting how Oedipus and Creon were telling a woman what happened as if they wanted to see who she thinks is right, which is contradicting to the idea of male dominance in society, which before seemed to be the case.
The idea of fate is completely evident in what Jocasta says to Oedipus about the prophecy the could have come from Apollo. Laius was fated to be killed by his son, so when he had a son concieved with Jocasta, he killed it. By doing that he was killed by the robbers. So it is the whole idea of trying to change fate actually following through with fate. If he was destined to die, he would. And so he did.
(I'll re-post this if the other blog goes up)
-Maddie A
I forgot to reread this last night... but now I have read.
ReplyDelete-Audrey Emerson