1. Find a passage that you don't understand and quote it, asking a classmate for help with it. If a classmate tries to answer it, that counts as their contribution to this assignment.
2. Find a brief passage that bears on the idea of "character is fate," and explain.
3. In lines 1379-1387, Oedipus has one or more of his people use force against the old shepherd to get him to talk. Comment.
4. "Then let it break, whatever it is." (1292-3) Can you find the dramatic irony (that is, the way in which Oedipus says something he'll want to take back later)?
5. I see myself as a child of fortune—
and she is generous, that mother of mine 1300from whom I spring, (1299-1301)
Can you find the dramatic irony (that is, the way in which Oedipus says something he'll want to take back later)?
The line, "let it break, whatever it is" is an ironic statement. The line is reffering to Jocastas rushing off into the house grief stricken, and the way in which Oedipus simply says "let it break", shows that he is brushing Jocastas grief off as simply a fit about something that doesn't concern him when, however, we know that this is ironic, because her concerns that he has chosen to ignore are infact the answers to the questions and concerns he is striving to answer. So her concerns are possibly even more affecting to him than Jocasta as they are about him and his fate, thus by nonchalantly brushing aside her fit, he has brushed aside the answer to the question of his fate that basically drives the entire play.
ReplyDelete"SERVANT: I pitied the boy, master, and I thought he’d take the child off to a foreign land where he was from. But he rescued him, only to save him for the greatest grief of all, for if you’re the one this man says you are you know your birth carried an awful fate."
ReplyDelete1412-1417
This line is a representation of trying to change one's fate which seems to happen a lot in Mythology and Oedipus. By giving Oedipus to a stranger, the man thought he could help the child avoid such a horrible fate, when in fact, he let him to it without knowing it. In that way it is characterizing fate as unescapable and something that is pre-determined but we think we make the decisions that lead us to bad fates without really considering that what will happen will happen so avoiding it is somewhat pointless. In Oedipus's case it seems to be that way at least because everything the prophecy/fate said would happen actually did through his own actions and the actions of others that affected him.
-Maddie A
"Then let it break, whatever it is." Oedipus says this in response to the Chorus leader's quote, "I fear a disastrous storm will soon break through her silence." Oedipus' quote is extremely ironic because he says this line mockingly, but it soon proves to be true. Could this be another symbol of fate? Perhaps Oedipus, by saying "let it break" is subconsciously revealing his own fate. Maybe he knew that something bad would occur, and by stating this quote, unknowingly unleashed his fate upon himself.
ReplyDeleteOedipus:
ReplyDeleteI see myself as a child of fortune—
and she is generous, that mother of mine
from whom I spring, and the months, my siblings,
have seen me by turns both small and great.
That’s how I was born. I cannot change
to someone else, nor can I ever cease
from seeking out the facts of my own birth.
In this passage Oedipus uses pride as a weapon to cover up his feeling, in this case them being hopelessness and confusion, among others. Pride can often help seal the wounds, but doesn't last long and often times when it wears off all that's left is the truth, hard and cold. Pride makes people blind to see the truth. Pride can be a positive characteristic, but can lead to one's downfall if it is expressed as egotism or to cover something up. I think that Oedipus uses pride as a cry for help, showing his result to helplessness that he is reluctant to admit.
"Then let it break, whatever it is." (1292-3) Can you find the dramatic irony (that is, the way in which Oedipus says something he'll want to take back later)?
ReplyDeleteI think that in this line Oedipus is saying (after Jocasta runs out) that he no longer cares about Jocasta and her opinions and what is going on between them. He want to focus on finding his parents and figuring out where he came from. He then goes onto say that his main focus now is finding his parents and where he came from. I think he will want to take it back when he realizes that his wife (mother) is right. I also think that the dramatic irony of this scene is that Oedipus is giving up trying in his relationship, and in any show that is a big plot change and aditude change.. which makes for a dramatic moment!
In this passage Oedipus uses force to make the servant tell him what he wants to know. This definitely reveals something about the character of Oedipus. It shows us that he is so desperate to get what he wants that he will do anything to get there. At many points in the play Oedipus does not take the time to think through his actions and this ultimately causes a lot of trouble in his life. This flaw could also be one of the reasons that Oedipus is given this terrible fate which he is unable to escape.
ReplyDelete"I see myself as a child of fortune—
ReplyDeleteand she is generous, that mother of mine 1300
from whom I spring," (1299-1301)
This statement is filled with dramatic irony. Oedipus is basically proclaiming his self-confidance in his birth being that of fourtune. Moreover, I feel as though this passage is incredibly ironic because Oedipus is setting himself up to fall. The fact that he sees himself as a "child of fourtune" just amplifies his self-assurance, and Oedipus personifing fourtune as the "mother of I, from whom I spring," also proclaims an air of assurance that he is of a fourtunate standing. This is incredibly ironic because after he is done making these implications we discover that he is the very man poisining the land with the vile deeds of murdering his father and sleeping with his mother. This was of Oedipus' setting himself up then falling down from his pedistal almost reminds me of someone who is the punchline of a joke. The one who is brought up to the high standing then crashed back dwon for everyone to laugh at.
-Ashley
"Then let is break, whatever it is." Oedipus say this and will repgret it soon to come, because the queen that has just run off in grief will soon have some answer of sort to whom has given him brith. Oedipus say this after the Chorus leader says:" I fear a disastrous storm will soon break through her silence." Where i think that she will come in handy at some point, I also think that he will regret saying that because in a way he is causing some trouble to happen to him and everybody else with that storm coming in, and when it does he will say to remeber saying that and soon regret saying that. So sort of like Chris said, he is sort of unleashing his fate upon himself.
ReplyDeleteSERVANT: So I would kill it.
ReplyDeleteOEDIPUS: That wretched woman was the mother?
SERVANT: Yes.
She was afraid of dreadful prophecies.
OEDIPUS: What sort of prophecies?
SERVANT: The story went
that he would kill his father.
OEDIPUS: If that was true, 1410
why did you give the child to this old man?
SERVANT: I pitied the boy, master, and I thought
he’d take the child off to a foreign land
where he was from. But he rescued him,
only to save him for the greatest grief of all. [1180]
For if you’re the one this man says you are
you know your birth carried an awful fate.
This passage depicts the idea, "character is fate." The servant is describing how Oedipus mom/wife told him to get rid of her child because of the fate that was bore upon him. This shows that people were ignorant in the truth these prophecies told. In a way a character being ignorant in the story is a personality trait that ends up becoming a major part into why the fate turned out to happen, because if Jocasta never tried to dodge fate, things would have probably turned out to be completely different, also if the servant had not trusted the man to take Oedipus far away from their country.
Oedipus-
ReplyDeleteAh,so it all came true. It’s so clear now.O light, let me look at you one final time,
a man who stands revealed as cursed by birth, 1420 cursed by my own family, and cursed by murder where I should not kill.
IT is Clear THaT Oedipus is realizing How His life was and How iT would be.He also explains How His family's life was like, and Talks abouT is own murder. THe end Is abouT How He is noT going CommiT suiCide and awaiT is deaTH To Come.
CHORUS: If I have any power of prophecy
ReplyDeleteor skill in knowing things,
then, by the Olympian deities,
you, Cithaeron, at tomorrow’s moon [1090]
will surely know that Oedipus 1310
pays tribute to you as his native land
both as his mother and his nurse,
and that our choral dance and song
acknowledge you because you are
so pleasing to our king.
I didn't quite understand this passage.
If anyone could explain it that would be great
OEDIPUS: If you won’t tell us of your own free will, once we start to hurt you, you will talk.
ReplyDeleteSERVANT: By all the gods, don’t torture an old man!
OEDIPUS: One of you there, tie up this fellow’s hands.
SERVANT: Why are you doing this? It’s too much for me! What is it you want to know?
At this point, it seems as though Oedipus has tried every other way to find out the secret with Laius, and his parents and he has to result to physical force, and threats to get it his questions answered. He tries to find out from Teiresias, his wife, Jocasta, and now the old shepherd is his last hope to figuring out his mystery. In the past Oedipus used more mental persuasion to find out this puzzle, but in this scene he uses physical persuasion. This may be because Teiresias is considered of high status, and Oedipus would be frowned upon for using physical persuasion with him, the same reason being for Jocasta. But with the old shepherd, no one in his kingdom has ever heard of him, and in the text they don’t even use his name they just call him “Servant”, he is of such lower status.
"let it break, whatever it is"
ReplyDeleteI think at this point, Oedipus thinks that Jocasta has no use to him, and he really doesn't care about her at the moment, because she is just in the way of what he's trying to figure out. Then when he finds the man he was looking for, and gets the story out of him, he finally realizes that Jocasta did have important information, and she just didn't him to find out that his wife was also his mother. I think that Jocasta wanted him just to think of her as his wife, so he wouldn't think of her as any different, and wouldn't love her in any different way.
Messenger: This man here, my friend, was that young child back then.
ReplyDeleteServant: Damn you! Can't you keep quiet about it!
Oedipus: Hold on, old man. Don't criticize him. What you have said is more objectionable than his account.
Servant: My noble master, what have I done wrong?
Oedpius: You did not tell us of that infant boy, the one he asked about.
I can feel the overall emotions of this passage, from the anger of Servant to the determined side of Oedipus, that leads to confusion or resentment toward Oedipus by the servant. How the servant uses an expletive and forces the messenger to be quiet signifies that he knows about this situation already and does not want the story to be repeated. But Oedipus's line that follows is the most bewildering thing ever. "Hold on, old man. Don't criticize him. What you have said is more objectionable than his account." What could he possibly mean by that? Anyone have ideas about this?
I also wanted to comment on something. I remember we had a whole discussion of Jocasta exclaiming "In the name of the gods...." and how it can be portrayed as very religious or non-religious, and used for gigantic emphasis. Here, the servant exclaims it twice: "SERVANT: By all the gods, don't torture an old man!" line 1381. In Line 149, the same servant says: "SERVANT: In the name of the gods, my lord, don't ask! Please, no more questions!" These two sayings deifnitely agree that the servant is more than just pleading, but he is almost begging on the floor, and whether it would be for religious or non-religious, he means very seriously by using the gods in his speech.
The fate of Oedipus is a key component to the entire play, and the reader is lead to believe that Oedipus would purposely sleep with his mother and murder his father sometime in his life. However, Oedipus goes about life content and not knowing that he has already comitted such sin. I think that if the prophecy said that Oedipus was going to live a happy life even living with this unintentional sin, the story would be completely different, even though most of the actions of the characters remained the same.
ReplyDeleteMy thinking about this mostly came out in these lines:
OEDIPUS: That wretched woman was the mother?
SERVANT: Yes.
She was afraid of dreadful prophecies.
OEDIPUS: What sort of prophecies?
SERVANT: The story went
that he would kill his father.